Folks, I hope everyone takes the time to look up which of our elected officials voted Obamacare into law. If you bother to check, all Senate Democrats voted yes and all Senate Republicans voted no. Obamacare passed by a narrow margin in the Senate. In the House, 219 Democrats and one Republican voted yes and 39 Democrats and 176 Republicans voted no.

Look up your elected senators and representatives and vote for someone else if they voted yes for this boondoggle. Who would pass a law so we could see what's in it? Anyone with a brain should read any bill before it's passed, so we don't get something like this.

No one who voted for this law deserves to be in office. It's time to put people in Washington who will do what's right for the country and get us back on track to what the United States used to be. Wake up, America, before it's too late! Career politicians have to go!

Forrest Erickson

Le Claire

(102) comments

beman101
beman101

This what happens when you have a bad school system. stop watching FOX news.

Lou Ford
Lou Ford

I like this take the best: "Meanwhile, in delusional Republican land, Republicans are still claiming that the ACA website is broken. The media has been helping the hapless party of no by continuing to insist that despite data to the contrary, the website is broken.

The good news for Democrats is that there was a four fold increase in enrollment while the website was still broken and being repaired. This is proof that the Republican attempts to scare people away from signing up for affordable health insurance are not working. People want what the ACA is offering so badly that they were willing to fight through a glitchy website to get it.

As the media was warning of gloom and doom and calling the Obama presidency over, people were signing up for health insurance. As 39 cowardly House Democrats were siding with Republicans on a bill that would have gutted the ACA, people were gaining access to affordable health insurance.

The media and the Republican Party are both wrong. The ACA is not going to doom Democrats and the Obama presidency. It is going to prove once and for all why Democrats are better at governing. The ACA will define and make President Obama’s legacy. "

grimm

4X0=?

david_wolfgang

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grimm

@aquitas

Lol. Everything that we said would be the consequence of obamacare has come to pass.

Hate to say it, but we told you so.

aequitas
aequitas

That's quite a bit of historical revisionism if I ever saw it!

grimm

now, now

for years you have been the unapologetic supporter of obamacare.

you pretty much said that all was well.

Say, how is that cost cure bending????

sts


grimm

cost curve, heh.


aequitas
aequitas

By all measures and accounts, the cost curve IS bending. Health care costs continue to increase less and less each year. The ACA is part of that but certainly not the only reason.

If confronting blatant lies that you and others have written about the ACA ("Obamacare") is considered being an unapologetic supporter, then I guess I am. If I hadn't had to spend so much time confronting those blatant lies, you would have heard me be much more of a skeptical supporter of the legislation. I was never sure how great the ACA would be at reducing costs. I firmly believed, and still do, that the system of a private health insurance marketplace (the exchanges) does a better job at delivering a product to the consumer because terms are standardized and clear to understand, there are more consumer protections, the products (insurance) are actually worth something, and they're still delivered by the private sector.

Much to the dismay of my more progressive friends, I didn't think the public option was necessary and was perfectly comfortable seeing it go. I also didn't believe we should go to a single-payer system, and I still don't. Again, on this point you are engaging in historical revisionism. Whether you like it or not, I'm in the middle ideologically where the vast majority of Americans are. You're one of the outliers.

grimm

the "exchanges" are not "markets"

they are controlled by functionaries.

grimm

lol.

costs are still *increasing*

the rate of increase has slowed because of the obama recession.

When millions of the uninsured move to the public trough so you really think costs will go down.

do you believe that a community organizer from chicago, of all places, can actually affect the interplay of supply and demand.

There is only one side that has consistently and repeated lied in this debate:

yours.

aequitas
aequitas

Grimm, EVERY market is controlled by a functionary, so you cannot use that as the basis for a cogent argument. The stock market, the very symbol of capitalism, is controlled by functionaries. Your local farmers market is controlled by a functionary.

aequitas
aequitas

Yes, costs are still increasing, and the rate has slowed in significant part due to the economy, but not exclusively.

"Still, the Kaiser Family Foundation, a nonprofit research group, estimates that the weak economy accounts for as much as three-quarters of the slowdown in the growth of spending on health care. But even if only about a quarter of the savings is because of noneconomic factors, said Larry Levitt, a top official at the Kaiser Family Foundation, 'that’s real change in the health system.'"

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/03/business/affordable-care-act-so-far-seems-likely-to-cost-less-than-expected.html?pagewanted=1&_r=0

Aside from all of this, and as I said in my previous post, I'm still skeptical that the ACA will significantly reduce healthcare costs. That doesn't mean that numerous other benefits are realized while having only a small impact on healthcare cost inflation.

Many of those uninsured will be paying for at least a portion of their health insurance premium through the exchanges. Having health insurance encourages preventive medicine, coming in at a much lower cost of care. Your analysis pretends that they don't consume healthcare because they're uninsured. That's a completely false premise.

[quote]"do you believe that a community organizer from chicago, of all places, can actually affect the interplay of supply and demand."[/quote]

This is an interesting position for you to stake out. I'm pretty sure you were one of the people blaming President Obama for high gas prices (i.e. the interplay of supply and demand). Were you lying then, or are you lying now? You have no consistent or cogent argument, grimm. At least REAL libertarians are consistent. You're just another partisan yelling at the clouds longing for a better day that never existed in the first place.

grimm

@aequitas

lovely fun to watch you spin your wheels defending this turkey!

I'll let you assess whether obama or obamacare, is the turkey here!

The left, and you, has done little but lie about this feckless program from its conception.

obamacare has lost power, dipped a wing and is destined just to be a fireball on a desolate political hill!

priceless! [especially the political gymnastics of a certain 12 democrat senators]

grimm

@aequitas

pray tell, just what functionary controls a perfectly competitive market?

:-)

pull off that blindfold and enroll in an intermediate micro course .....

Merlotsucks5

I look at all the repuke responses and lies and I wonder how in the world do these guys control congress. Wait they don't!!!!!! They just refuse to do the job they were sent to office to do. Represent the people.

The people have spoke and want the ACA. Deal with it!!!!

grimm

I can recommend an anger management class.

IntellectualHonesty
IntellectualHonesty

""""They just refuse to do the job they were sent to office to do. Represent the people. """
I see you are back to just drive by comments!!! You don't want to be engaged because you are proven wrong....... Okay how about this to your quote above! They are representing their constituents because they ran on stopping Obamacare!! Now you don't want them to represent th e voters wishes??????????????

PTRung

At this point, we do not know how many people will loose insurance because of higher costs and how many will loose because the employer uses ACA to cut its costs or get out of the health insurance business. The ACA is a complex program that was a "compromise" between a universal health care system and the old system. Medicare could have been offered to all with appropriate premiums and a fees schedule but interest in the current system was to entrenched. Still ACA opens insurance to many who couldn't afford it before and other parts of the law insure people with existing health care problems. Having health records on the computer allows for better diagnosis and preventing crime, currently, a 60 billion annual cost.

PTRung

The Republicans view employer paid health insurance as a event of WW II when the employers could not raise wages. McCain's health care would have employers send the money for employee insurance to the IRS and the IRS credit the employee with that amount to buy insurance. This would make insurance portable and limit the expense to the employer. It would make American business more competitive in the world.
Business and states are transferring Medicare recipients to ACA programs to save money. The State of Illinois is requiring that their Medicare beneficiaries transfer to a med-agap option. In our area it is United Health Care PPO and the premium is about half the old premiums but the co-pay is 20% up to $1000.00. For healthy seniors the savings are substantial but even the maximum personal outlay is cheaper than the old/current insurance.

Toy578

Mediare recipients required to transfer to a med-agap option? You have no idea what you are talking about. Medicare recipients to ACA programs to save money? I say again, you have no idea what you are talking about.

Lou Ford
Lou Ford

For every "horror" story about Obamacare, there are ten people who can now buy insruance through the free market.

IntellectualHonesty
IntellectualHonesty

Please reference your source....................................

Stonecold
Stonecold

I read somewhere, where they said, for every horror story concerning the ACA, there was 15 good stories about it.

IntellectualHonesty
IntellectualHonesty

""""I read somewhere,"""" Who can argue with this????? WOW Stone your sources are beyond reproach!!!

And you call other people morons?

45acp

More made up numbers, try to be credible...

Stonecold
Stonecold

Just keep in mind readers.

That if the gop’s new darling ted cruz says, he fears that the citizens of the country will become so happy with Obamacare.

That Nut’s like himself, and the rest of the Nuts that control the gop will never be able to kill, Obamacare.

Klaatu
Klaatu

Remember THIS readers; Stonedcold is a fibber. Cruz didn't say that at all. He said that after they became dependent on government they would fight to keep their "entitlements". Which is sadly true. We can see the result of the booming welfare society of Marxist Barry and his gang of ne'er do wells.

Stonecold
Stonecold

And, you can take a known liar on these threads’ words to the bank, because he's a limbaugh wanna-be!:-)

Stonecold
Stonecold

Just remember readers.

If you want your country back.

It is a very simple process.

Just vote out every libertarian holding office or vying for office..

It's just that simple! :-)

Klaatu
Klaatu

This mess is both a failure of implementation and bad intentions. They intended to strip millions of people of their health care. Next year the number will be up to about 20 million and they will be livid. And democrats will pay. They are runnin' scared and they should be.

Merlotsucks5

I never said anything about cost. Now that you bring that up. Costs have gone up slower than ever before because of the ACA. Costs rise every year. It just happens that they have gone up slower than ever as more of the ACA becomes law!!!! Your logic is that of a 5yr old

IntellectualHonesty
IntellectualHonesty

""""Costs have gone up slower than ever before because of the ACA"""
Costs have not gone up as fast because we have been in a horse sh*t economy...
Now you stated that those folks losing insurance will be because of their employers....Here is the fact they will lose it because Obamacare will make them purchase a more expensive policy, that is fact...no one has found a cheaper policy, and despite what you think companies do not have limitless resources. So they will be forced off their insurance......
Seeing as I have proven your claims wrong....I will take the logic of a conservative 5 year old over a grown liberal everyday!!!!

Mise

It's obvious you consult 5-year-old's for you political philosophy on a regular basis.

IntellectualHonesty
IntellectualHonesty

""""""I never said anything about cost""""""""
WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!! The entire discussion about healthcare is cost....

Merlotsucks5

Why is our country rated so poorly in healthcare???? Because it is based on greed and not care!!!!! Our results per $ spent are pathetic!!!!

IntellectualHonesty
IntellectualHonesty

So you believe that Drs. and hospitals are responsible..... Look I know a ton of Docs and they usually care more about the patients care than the patient.....

Same is true for education......so are teachers greedy???

Why do you have such a low opinion of your fellow citizens????

IntellectualHonesty
IntellectualHonesty

"""Individual mandate is constitutional!!!"""

Because they claimed it was a tax after Obama said it wasn't a tax....oh well what's one more lie at this point!!

Merlotsucks5

Doctors and hospitals have not been held accountable at all. The previous system of pay per service and not results does not show any accountability. It shows thy have milked the system at the expense of many!!!!!!!!

IntellectualHonesty
IntellectualHonesty

""""Doctors and hospitals have not been held accountable at all. The previous system of pay per service and not results does not show any accountability. It shows thy have milked the system at the expense of many!!!!!!!!""""

No Doctors and Hospitals are greedy.....to funny!!!! How do you explain the increase in life expectancy??? This is why I knew you never replied your arguments are laughable!!!

Merlotsucks5

Once again. Stop lying. 80 million 100 million. 157 million. You are wrong. Facts are facts!!!!! Employer based healthcare will be there and if your employer drops your insurance then it's your employers fault not the ACA. If they are bigger than a small business then they will have to provide coverage after the waiver expires. Talk to your employer. The ACA is not responsible.

Once again you are wrong. Stop lying!!!!!!!

IntellectualHonesty
IntellectualHonesty

""""Once again you are wrong. Stop lying!!!!!!!"""

So when the cost goes up because of ACA mandates??? Which is what is happening now....that will have nothing to do with Obamacare?????

STOP LYING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

45acp

What??? I can't believe you even said that Merlo...

LNorman

Eisenhower, Reagen and Clinton all tryed to get afforable health care passed but failed. You repugs were for it Obama got it passed now you repugs are against it. What are we to believe when only one side of your brain works

IntellectualHonesty
IntellectualHonesty

"""Eisenhower, Reagen and Clinton all tryed to get afforable health care passed but failed. You repugs were for it Obama got it passed now you repugs are against it. What are we to believe when only one side of your brain works"""

Again a fantasy!! If everyone was for it why didn't it pass????? Oh I know because everyone wasn't for it!!!!!

LNorman

I never said everyone was for it you just made that part up You must be a tea party/repug

aequitas
aequitas

Because at the time Grassley, Dole and the Heritage Foundation were promoting a concept identical to the ACA, Democrats were pushing for single payer. 14 years later, Democrats agreed with that Republican alternative only to be lambasted by the same people who advocated for it in the 1990s.

Merlotsucks5

The ACA is not going anywhere. Law of the land. Repukes can't change that.

grimm

But a banana boat load of democrat senators is heading home. :-)

Merlotsucks5

What money could have been saved. Cruz and his nut jobs cost our country money and jobs!!!!

IntellectualHonesty
IntellectualHonesty

"""What money could have been saved. Cruz and his nut jobs cost our country money and jobs!!!!"""

Well we Obama wouldn't have shut down the government and you would not have had people scrambling because their insurance is cancelled...oh wait now Obama changed his mind...you can keep it....oh wait now small business doesn't have to comply.....this all cost money as people have to address a government mandate!!

IntellectualHonesty
IntellectualHonesty

""""I don't decide who is American. I just know that those who want our country to fail because they are racist nut jobs who want to see America fail are not American!!!! """

No you clearly stated WE AMERICANS! So apparently you do believe you decide. So now you went even deeper! If someone disagrees with what you believe should be policies they want the country to fail???? Do you agree with Dr. Ben Carson? If not you are obviously a racist!!!

Merlotsucks5

I don't decide who is American. I just know that those who want our country to fail because they are racist nut jobs who want to see America fail are not American!!!!

Merlotsucks5

Tort reform is always a bad idea. Doctors and hospitals need to be held accountable!!!!!

IntellectualHonesty
IntellectualHonesty

"""Doctors and hospitals need to be held accountable!!!!!""" When they are in error I agree but what about when they aren't??? Are you for loser pays??

aequitas
aequitas

In some instances, yes. I think this is potentially an area that the IPAB can play a role in. It could more clearly define national standards of care. If a physician is able to demonstrate that those standards were followed then it might be reasonable for the plaintiff to pay attorney fees.

aequitas
aequitas

Ultimately, something like that is a delicate balance, though, because if you go too far and in every case assess all litigation costs from the winning side to the losing side, it discourages dispute resolution outside of the traditional court process. More cases would go to trial, thus increasing costs to run the judicial system. Instead of reducing costs, you're then just shifting them from one place to another. Perhaps you could conduct an expedited review in a med-mal specialty court or create an intermediate administrative ruling level. Certainly not an easy answer. They rarely are.

Merlotsucks5

80 to 100million are not losing insurance. Stop making up lies!!!!

IntellectualHonesty
IntellectualHonesty

Not a lie!!!! How will you make this the Republicans fault when it happens??? Oh I kow it will be worthless insurance???
Almost 80 million people with employer health plans could find their coverage canceled because they are not compliant with ObamaCare, several experts predicted.

Their losses would be in addition to the millions who found their individual coverage cancelled for the same reason.

Stan Veuger of the American Enterprise Institute said that in addition to the individual cancellations, "at least half the people on employer plans would by 2014 start losing plans as well." There are approximately 157 million employer health care policy holders.

Avik Roy of the Manhattan Institute added, "the administration estimated that approximately 78 million Americans with employer sponsored insurance would lose their existing coverage due to the Affordable Care Act."

LNorman

The repugs couldn't stop the teaba66ers from taken over their party now their trying to give us advice. How would like to land way out in space on one of these peoples planet ? Ted Cruz , Rand Pauls. Sarah Palin, Paul Ryan ,Darrell Isea or Michell Bachman,s It would be pretty frighting & right down scarry. Sorry what a horriable thought or a place to be.

Merlotsucks5

Individual mandate is constitutional!!!

Everyone will use healthcare. If you get a service without insurance then your cost get spread out on everyone else!!!! Simple!!!! Plus the tax is so small most will opt to just pay the penalty.

IntellectualHonesty
IntellectualHonesty

"""Everyone will use healthcare. If you get a service without insurance then your cost get spread out on everyone else!!!!"""
Not if they pay their bill!!!

"""Plus the tax is so small most will opt to just pay the penalty."""
So who will pay that bill....oh yeah still us!

aequitas
aequitas

Generally speaking, a failure of implementation is different than a failure of concept. In business, an executive might have a great idea but poorly execute it. That doesn't mean the idea was bad.

In these debates, that distinction has been blurred by Republicans for purely political reasons. That political posturing has hindered the ability to improve implementation.

IntellectualHonesty
IntellectualHonesty

Put your hip waders on it is getting deep in here!!!!

Stonecold
Stonecold

Yes!

Your blather is getting rather DEEP! :-)

Merlotsucks5

Atlass. Name on thing. Seriously. Stop talking if you can't name one thing.

LNorman

Forester---Don't you think the ones that shut down our government that cost our tax payers millions a day should be voted out first? Or are you just a 42 time repug loser crybaby on the AFFORABLE HEALTH CARE that is the law VOTED ON AND PASSED BY CONGRESS AND IS WORKING.. If you feel that way about it and are sincere give it all up your S.S, medicalcare and Medicade. We should see your name at the top of the list refusing to except any of this RIGHT? The repugs faught that to.

IntellectualHonesty
IntellectualHonesty

Think of the money that could have been saved if they would have listened to Cruz....delay the mandate! Would have kept the government open and saved us from this last month!

Merlotsucks5

Can any repuke name one negative about this law that is a fact? Just one!!!!

atlasshrugged

I can tell you something that is a fact. If the people knew in 2012 what we know now about Obamacare he would not have been re-elected!

aequitas
aequitas

And Bush wouldn't have been reelected in 2006. I've argued for some time that a four year term does not provide a good basis in modern politics to evaluate a president for reelection. I would much prefer two six year terms. It would provide good leaders with twelve years to accomplish a lot and significantly reduce the likelihood of a bad leader from spending more than six years in office.

silentmajority

2006????

aequitas
aequitas

@silentmajority: The point Atlas was making was that President Obama wouldn't be reelected if he was on the ballot in 2014 (i.e. under current point in his presidency). Perhaps it would have been easier for you to follow if I had phrased it differently. Bush would not have been reelected in 2004 under the conditions in 2006. I was simply making a parallel between modern Republican and modern Democratic presidencies and using those parallels to make a general statement on the flawed structure of our system that places a reelection campaign too early for the public to effectively make an evaluation of the first term.

silentmajority

Thanks for the clarification, I wasn't following your logic with the mid year date.

spirit-warrior
spirit-warrior

The individual/employer mandates and taxes. How can the government tax someone for not buying something?

IntellectualHonesty
IntellectualHonesty

Not one! How about 80 to 100 million who will lose their insurance! Why don't you engage anyone here??? You blurt your talking points and leave....

grimm

My premiums are going up

It's your fault

aequitas
aequitas

My premiums were going up long before the ACA.

Merlotsucks5

Funny letter. No way will the repukes gain in 14 or 16. Face it Americans do not agree with your 1% policy. We Americans will be at the polls voting out the repukes who shut down the government and only try to destroy America.

IntellectualHonesty
IntellectualHonesty

"""We Americans will be at the polls voting out the repukes who shut down the government and only try to destroy America. """"

You get to decide who is and isn't an American??? SAD.....

longjohn412

Better to kick out the Do Nothing Republicans who completely FAILED to address one of our biggest problems in Society .....

Could the ACA have been better? Yup but the sad fact is the Republicans COMPLETELY FAILED to give us any alternative, much less a better alternative.

I'd rather my representative tried and failed than to do absolutely nothing at all like the GOP throughout all of this .....

IntellectualHonesty
IntellectualHonesty


""""Could the ACA have been better? Yup but the sad fact is the Republicans COMPLETELY FAILED to give us any alternative, much less a better alternative."""

Lets get some honesty here! Dems shot down every amendment....wouldn't even put tort reform in....

aequitas
aequitas

Actually, they did not shoot down every amendment. Senator Grassley had a significant impact on the end result through his position on the Finance Committee.

IntellectualHonesty
IntellectualHonesty

"""Actually, they did not shoot down every amendment. Senator Grassley had a significant impact on the end result through his position on the Finance Committee."" You are right they got that one thru then Obama decided to just ignore it as part of the law!!! So sorry how could I forget that ONE!

aequitas
aequitas

It's not being ignored. Congress has to purchase insurance through the exchanges. That hasn't changed.

aequitas
aequitas

And for the record, if you ACTUALLY believe in being intellectually honest, there were over 100 amendments authored by Republicans that were approved in the Senate.

aequitas
aequitas

Also, tort reform (also known as arbitrary statutory caps on damages) has not shown any significant results in reducing the cost of medicine in states that have adopted it. I believe that we should allow a jury of one's peers who hear the facts of a case to say how much a physician's mistake is worth as opposed to legislators without any factual basis to support their caps.

longjohn412

Stupid amendments intended to fail isn't the same thing as having any actual plan ....

Republicans had NOTHING TO OFFER .....

Show me the **comprehensive*** plan to reform Healthcare by the Republican Party ...

And it's going to be more than the 2 pages Bonehead once tried to pass off as a plan ....

longjohn412

So where is the comprehensive Republican Plan to reform Healthcare in America?

I have yet to see them *** honestly**** propose any alternatives other than go to the emergency room which isn't any kind of solution or Reform at all

grimm

And failed they did with obamacare

Stonecold
Stonecold

Just another ridiculous letter from the schizophrenic libertarian Nuts in their on going war against America.

The one’s reagan’s former budget director David Stockman was referring to, when he said, the gop had recruited a bunch of Nuts to fill their ranks.

IntellectualHonesty
IntellectualHonesty

Stockman reference everyone drink!

Stonecold
Stonecold

What's wrong?

Is it that you can;t stand having reagan's former budget director telling the truth about what has happened to the gop?

grimm

2014

Remember that each senator that voted for obamacare cast the deciding vote and is personally responsible for this monstrosity.

Each and every one of them must be cast from office.

longjohn412

Well that's gonna be kinda of hard when only 1/3 of Senators are up for re-election in 2014 ....

I guess you skipped over that part of the Constitution .....

grimm

Those democrats up will prove to be more than enough

It's fun to watch them squirm

My senator has already personally apologized for a snippy response he made three years ago.

Not accepted!

senor citizen

An off year election means that the GOP will probably ending up controlling both the House and Senate. It will be partisan politics as usual in a divided nation that will remain divided regardless of the outcome.

Lou Ford
Lou Ford

Teaba66ers act like Healthcare Reform is the worst thing to happen to America, and that really shows how delusional they are. Jeez.

qcman

Vote out those who held America hostage and hurt so many by shutting down the Goverment.
Republicans are out of control.

Roman

I would have to agree.

Repubs are not in control in this government. The result was a shutdown.

Vote out the Dems in future elections.

I like your thinking.

Nomad

Big money is driving the train and that is bad for most of us.

freesenior

It is more than party politics. Its personal now. Dont have much use for either side of the aisle.

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